Direct Buyer to Seller House Purchase Proposal (realtors or middlemen

05/30/2023 - 10:17

Direct Buyer to Seller House Purchase Proposal (realtors or middlemen not welcome)

Buongiorno a tutti!

As my family and I are actively looking for a new home in Liguria or Tuscany, please find our criteria below:

- Style: a multi-storey traditional detached villa, farmhouse or palazzo with complete ownership, in good condition or renovated with quality materials (no PVC windows, cheap tiling, &c.), offering high vaulted ceilings and luminosity.

- Real living surface: a minimum of 200 sq.m.

- Amenities: a garden/patio — more lands, if in the country — and, at least, a garage for one car.

- Others: a preserved and homogeneous environment. Accessible basic services. No nuisances, proximity of busy roads, polluting industries, high voltage lines, &c.

- Budget: no more than the local market value.

And as we have already wasted too much time with so-called "professional" realtors, we are only keen to directly deal with really motivated and pragmatic sellers.

Cordiali saluti,

Laura

Topic

Property

Buying

Comment

You are probably obliged to go through an agent also in order to have all the paperwork, deeds etc of the building/s in order. I have a property of a similar description for sale but not in Tuscany, Liguria. Send me a private message if you would like details. saluti Liz

Buonasera Liz, and thank you for your kind reply.

According to my experiences, expats should be fully aware of the fact that — as confirmed by my Italian notary — most local real estate transactions are done without middlemen, while realtors are especially targeting gullible foreigners to impose their bad advices and indecent percentage (the latter being directly correlated to their bubbled market).

Besides, the uselessness of such middlemen is even more obvious that hiring a good local lawyer + a geometra, as an additional precaution to supervise the sale, is x3 less costly than to burden oneself with any realtor who has no loyalty nor legal knowledge.

Cordiali saluti,

Laura

YES YOU ARE RIGHT. Estate agents earn their fee just by the introducing the seller to the buyer - that is all that they are legally obliged to do. They are not supposed to enter into the legal or tecnical aspects of the Property, that is all left to the Notaio and for the buyer to carry out their own Due Diligence.

No you are wrong. The legal obligations of the agent go far beyond a mere introduction. The second sentence is also incorrect. HOwever, as to whether an agent follows his obligations is another matter, and here the buyer who chooses a crap agent is also at fault.

@modicasa

(Not) really sorry that the blatant truth offends your obsolete business-model (soon replaced by AI connecting buyers demands with sellers offers in national registers), but anyone knows that buyers have never the leisure to "choose" the crap realtors [as you named them] imposed by the sellers.

Furthermore, and contrary to lawyers, surveyors and notaries, who are the only competent, unbiased and affordable guarantors for any transaction, ruinously expensive realtors and other useless middlemen are neither sworn nor bound by professional secrecy, while the "legal obligations" you are invoking are purely theoretical, as proven by most misleading property advertisements and the deliberate concealment of redhibitory defects.

It is even more inappropriate that notoriously disloyal realtors boast about the "legal obligations" they flout on a daily basis, to extort everyone's confidential data — hence the major risk of divulgation + identity theft* — and all trust powers... just on the pretext of accessing basic services (phone line, electricity, bank account), anyone who has two neurons and a spine can nowadays subscribe online.

* https://www.usa.gov/identity-theft

So, obviously targeting gullible expats who marvel at nothing, the realtors "mission" basically consists to crash the banquet, impose their bad advices, over-indebting households and grab an indecent percentage... directly correlated to the systematically overpriced common houses (with basic finishing works and appliances) a trickish sales pitch tries to flog — houses yet desperately awaiting for improbable buyers throughout the former speculative "touristic" areas —, while knowing perfectly well that buying such overpriced houses will make it a calamitous and impossible to resell "investment", except to certainly lose the 2/3 of the initial inflated price.

Ergo, the only wrong thing here is your predictable subjectivity.

Oh dear. I assume you have had a bad experience in the past. However, at least do some research before you start accusing an entire profession.

Professional secrecy - wrong.

lawyers, surveyors and notaries being affordable and competent - wrong.

legal obligation being theoretical - wrong again

As to the rest....it seems more of a conspiracy theory than fact.

@modicasa

Primo: even if realtors business model consists to interfere in other people's projects for duping both buyers and sellers, it is highly inappropriate to harpoon my property purchase advert to get free publicity on my back.

Secundo: throwing a tantrum by way of diversion and just denying the embarrassing reality of factual elements known to everyone*, which I synthesize on the basis of experiences common to countless buyers and sellers, ripped off by a clique of so-called 'professionals' — as long as spending one's time lying, extorting and over-indebting households can be considered a 'profession' — just ends up discrediting your biased point of view.

Tertio: you have no idea who you are talking to, and the consumer protection group of which I am a member compiles feedback from thousands of buyers and sellers in the USA, Canada, UK, Belgium, France, Spain, Greece, and Italy... where we meet the worst untrustworthy and bunglers realtors of all — the last straw being that most of them are controlled by Dutch, German or British firms that have cornered the Italian property market to extort money from their own nationals!

Quarto: considering the generally deplorable realtors' education level, it is all the more indecent that they claim to rake in a 'commission' that can represent tens of thousand euros (i.e. years of savings for the buyers), depending on the value of the property sold — hence the artificial price hikes —, while lawyers and notaries receive a minimal remuneration for their incomparable education, skills and level of responsibilities.

So, echoing your last self-censored post: good luck for realtors future retraining in sectors spared by AI and in line with their real skills (binman, janitor, stable boy, roadmender, &c.); branches that may be less lucrative than real estate parasitism, but at least useful to Society.

And now, please stop polluting my property purchase advert with your toxic presence.

* Even if victims' inertia or lack of awareness in defending their rights still allows the majority of swindlers to escape criminal sanctions, a simple Google search will reveal a range of nuisances perpetrated by this 'profession'... as beneficial to households as a fox can be to a henhouse:

https://www.ilgiorno.it/milano/cronaca/droga-clienti-condanna-ex-agente…

https://www.reggioreport.it/2017/12/vende-appartamento-ma-e-una-truffa-…

https://www.lastampa.it/torino/2021/11/25/news/l_agente_immobiliare_tru…

https://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/2016/10/17/news/milano_finte_vendi…

https://www.gazzettadiparma.it/archivio-bozze/2021/12/08/news/truffa-mi…

https://www.rtbf.be/article/plus-de-760-agents-immobiliers-radies-en-ci…

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2015/04/22/un-courtier-immobilier-rec…

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/todd-kohlhepp-another-body-uncovered-on-su…

https://www.justice.gov/usao-cdca/pr/former-realtor-sentenced-4-years-f…

https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2022/10/02/real-estate-broker-michael-…

https://morristowngreen.com/2023/02/16/morristown-realtor-loses-license…

https://www.wsls.com/news/local/2022/08/04/southwest-virginia-husband-a…/

"Lancashire agent Claire Louise Ainsworth stole the money by telling the vendor and buyer different agreed selling prices":

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/18268441.estate-agent-claire…

https://thenegotiator.co.uk/online-estate-agent-convicted-of-5000-fraud/

"An estate agent has been handed a two-year jail term after attempting to defraud multiple clients of more than £25,000. Ayodele Oladuti photographed bank cards on his phone and took bank statements and other documents while showing prospective buyers around his clients' homes. The 29-year-old was sentenced to two years in prison for identity theft and fraud at Guildford Crown Court on Wednesday (April 26). Surrey Police said Oladuti, from South Croydon, used the documents he had obtained to commit identity theft while working for east Surrey estate agency The Personal Agent. He would set up bank accounts and a phone contract in his clients' names, before returning to their homes to collect the fraudulently obtained bank cards and a mobile phone":

https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/estate-agent-jailed-two-ye…

And so on...

Primo: If you want an advert, pay for one. If you post on a public forum you invite comments, which is the whole point of a forum.

Secondo: With the bare minimum of research you would know that a legally operating licenced realtor in Italy is a highly regulated profession. It is pointless citing real estate disasters in other countries which have no bearing on Italy or Italian law.

Terzo: It is illegal for foreign agents to work in Italy unless they are registered at the REA or use an licenced Italian agent. Anyone trusting their money to an illegal agent has no recourse in law, and can find their act of sale annulled as well as facing a 10.000 euro fine. Ignorance is no defence in Italian law, something which you would be well advised to learn if you continue libelling people.

Quarto: Your consumer association should also know the legion stories about corrupt lawyers and notaries, but you choose to ignore them. ‘Raking’ in commission shows a wilful ignorance of the tax system in Italy, but is to be expected.

Self censored no, edited yes – there is a difference. I edited my reply to not appear rude. You seem to have no such brake.

‘You have no idea who you’re talking to…. ’ I think I have a pretty good idea.

Well, given the publicity-oriented intrusions of @modicasa — including the incongruous remark "If you want an advert, pay for one" (?!), for obvious reasons such predators hate autonomous people and, once again, just want to crash the banquet, while everyone knows that even publishing a paid advert would never protect anyone from being harassed by pesky realtors —, it is fortunate that I took the precaution of specifying "realtors and middlemen not welcome"! 🤣

Regarding the deceitful allegation that "a legally operating licenced realtor in Italy is a highly regulated profession", a single look at Immobiliare and Idealista websites show that most ads are problematic with misleading photographic framing, abusive HDR filters, trickish sales pitch embellishing reality and adorning any thermal strainer barns with "luxury and prestigious property" appellations, hiding nuisances (such as proximity of busy roads, polluting industries, high voltage lines, &c.), lying on real living surfaces and concealing redhibitory defects... not mentioning the fact that some realtors try to sneakily sell their own house via their own agency without informing the buyer about this peculiarity (case already encountered four times with Italian realtors... who were even pretending to get a commission above that)!

As for the so-called "pointless real estate disasters in other countries which have no bearing on Italy or Italian law", the five links above (amongst countless others), revealed by a simple Google search, refer specifically to frauds and crimes committed by very honest realtors operating in Italy.

Knowing that, any lucid buyer is perfectly rightful to boycott parasitic, useless and toxic realtors, as they are no different than ambushed starvers speculators.

And given the great age of this histrion, @modicasa should have learned that a screen of susceptibility will never disguise a flagrant lack of integrity.

È finita la commedia!

I cant decide whether Ive met my first real life Karen or whether this is ChatGPT generated.

Either way, I hope you find a property, but would suggest that if you are a real person, you may not be well suited to living in Italy - I suspect you dont have the right character attributes to make for a happy life here.

Please let me know what a thermal strainer barn is.

As mentioned in my purchase offer, I already have a family (and two lovely dogs). So, perhaps should I precise that, even if @modicasa seems to like camping on this post, I have no intention to adopt this poor little thing.

Furthermore, we are already living in Roma (Italy), and just want to relocate in Liguria or Tuscany. Hence, our approach and ancestries are certainly more Italian than the British-born @modicasa would like to admit, as Italians are straightforward and hate to fatten up useless middlemen and parasites such as realtors — as confirmed by my Italian notary, since most local real estate transactions are done without realtors, who are especially targeting gullible foreigners to impose their bad advices and indecent percentage.

As for the overwhelming evidences I shared here, no need to be a "Karen or ChatGPT" to get it right, and it is another overwhelming proof of @modicasa so-called professionalism to ignore what is a "thermal strainer barn" (or a G class shed, if he prefers):

https://www.archyde.com/7-things-you-need-to-know-about-thermal-colande…

That said, and beyond @modicasa's spins & diversions, many thanks for focusing our attention on Sicily, where it seems urgent to help expats to not get scammed.

As you are continually inferring that I am a scammer, have the courage to say it explicitly.

NB: a barn or non residential building has no energy certification, my so called professionalism helps me to know the facts.

Hello Laura ,

at following link , you can find a - compromesso - specimen , and more info about purchasing in Italy -on italian Language - buona lettura

https://www.lifeinitaly.it/Italiano/Acquistare_un_immobile.htm

Hello Ugo, and thank you very much for this useful link.

I am sure that the realtor can always provide you with the best options for your request.

Considering the seriousness of the facts exposed above, I am not sure that your advice is objective nor relevant.

Ciao,are you in the USA and shopping online? because if you are you are only going to find overpriced inventory. What you need to do is go to italy and sit down with a local real estate agent ... just like here.. no different. The good stuff is all kept private and hyper local. If your Italian is rusty or non existent hire a tour guide/ translator... they are worth every penny you will spend. When i was there last i walked into a random real estate agency ... i asked for a listing of farm houses that were between 500 and 1000 years old. After typing a few key strokes and hitting print a few pieces of paper came out the printer on there was listed about 15 properties that matched my needs... hyper local is the best....

Buongiorno, and many thanks for your wise advice. 😊

In fact, we are already living in Roma (Italy), and from what we and our contacts have been able to ascertain, most of the property advertisements published by 'international' brands (such as RE/MAX, ENGEL & VÖLKERS, L'ARCHITRAVE, JAKLIN RIEGELMANN, APOLLONI & BLOM...) try, at the very best, to sell third-rate houses... displayed for years, but nevertheless listed at stratospheric prices.

As for local agencies, the problem lies mainly in their amateurism and the very approximate nature of the few information they provide.

It is all the more regrettable that the public is conditioned not to do anything by themselves, allowing this kind of middlemen to block the market for the sole purpose of raking in indecent percentages, though simple solutions exist that put sellers and buyers in direct contact (including the CasaDaPrivato.it website) — hence our rightful determination to break this vicious circle.