Ram's activity

Unfortunately Sprostoni it doesnt really work like that.  I have a house for sale, I earn my commission and an English company wants to list it, why should I halve my earnings?  Therefore if the English company wants their money  its all added on top.  The seller will pay their percentage, I will take mine, and if there is no agreement, and more importantly, no fattura - then Im not going to send a load of dosh to the UK.   The law says as the Italian agent I am written into the act- by both the buyer and the seller - according to the state I have therefore earned the money.  By 'giving' half away I still pay tax on it, but i dont have it in my bank account.  Its not worth it.  So the client pays twice in effect. ANd then we could start on all the scams that agents use to push up their earnings, with and without the clients knowledge.  

THanks for pointing out that some real estate agents are not crooks!  Your points are valid - UK sites are not Italian agents but 'property finders' - they have no legal basis under Italian law, as they list other agents properties - and then try and cream off their fee from the top.  Unless you are a registered and legally operating Italian estate agent you cannot, by law, ask for commission on a sale.  All agents should be written into the final act of sale with the amount of the commission.  If they are not in the act, the law sys they do not exist and you have no comeback in law with regard to negligence or malpractise.  'Property finders, property agents, consulente' etc are all terms for getting round Italian law - a real estate agent should have a number issued by the CCIAA or the registro imprese, a IVA number and preferably an inscription with a professional association such as FIAIP or FIMAA.  Anyone else is not legal.  While you can be a property finder in the UK, realistically they only list other peoples ads.  One company took ads from my website and their software mangled them so a house to restore completely in Sicily became a modernised hotel in France (Im not joking!) and then they threatened me with court actions because I refused to pay.   Go direct to the agent - its worth an hour of your time on the net, searching the big sites like www.immobiliare.it, or a search for a town.  

Since 2007 as a European citizen you do not need a PdS.  If you are non European you do.  If you have got the yellow or blue pack, been to the questura and done your fingerprints, you hahve to return the forms with all the additions and enclosures and then wait.... and wait... Nowadays it seems that all PdS are done via Rome so its not like in the old days where your local questura did the paperwork.  You should however have a receipt to say that you've applied, so you can apply for residency during the wait. 

Part of me says that this discussion is futile, if you happily immersed in Italian society why are clinging on to a British forum to express ideas that are not relevant to your Italian life?  Lotan is unhappy that not everyone is like him, but resorts to the ways of lamenting the fact that confront the very people he despises.  It seems obvious that if you are completely italianised you should not feel any need for an English forum, perhaps it would be better to discuss it with your Italian friends in a Circolo, or write on an Italian forum.  Having said that, we should all bear in mind that the reasons for being in Italy are many, as are the reasons for going back to the UK.  Not everyone is here as a result of an abiding love of Italy and its way of life - and many who are realise that it's not all it's cracked up to be.  Joy is perfectly right when she says that living here is different from coming here on holiday - for some people it's obvious, for others it takes time to realise that existing in another country means a different mindset to eating out every night for two weeks and going to art galleries.  It is easy to be arrogant when you have learned the language, mastered the bureaucracy and have found a way of life that suits you, whether that includes talking to other Brits or not.  But it brings us back to the initial point which is that not everyone is the same as me or you.  What we can do as individuals, despite our shortcomings, is choose our friends and the people we want to associate with.  if Lotan is unable to avoid whingeing expats who eat Marmite, it is ultimately his problem and I don't see why he wants to berate everyone else for his failings.  As for multiculturism, italy has proved itself to be the most monocultural society in Europe.  Whether it is the fault of the church or the deep insecurity of the Italians can be debated ad infinitum, but Brits dont come to ITaly to eat Chinese food or visit mosques, for the vast majority want 'Italian-ness' and the more monocultural the better.  This has nothing to do with Brits being here or their dietary requirements.   It isnt a sin to want marmite - in fact for me its a necessity and the sooner Lidl wakes up the fact the better - you only have to see italians abroad to know that a desire for home comforts isnt a peculiarly British trait.  In Sharm el Sheik there are rows of hotels which have a full complement of Italian staff to make the Italians feel at home.  In the Seychelles i know of a hotel which has an italian pasta chef purely for the Italian visitors, and imports Lavazza for the guests.     As for 'be more Italian, embrace Italianism' you'd be hard pushed to find an Italian who wouldnt give their eye teeth to live in London, change Italy for an anglosaxon version, while not giving an inch on food.     What would be more interesting, instead of whingeing about whingeing, and displaying a breathtaking arrogance and self righteousness, would be to discuss what is Italian-ness - because I would bet that between Emilia Romagna and Sicily there are a myriad of different definitions.  

Perhaps we should start a new thread. The federalism laws are fine up to a point but are hugely biased in favour of the north.  They assume 1. that there are lots of people with jobs to pay local income tax  2. first and second homes - if first homes are exempt, then the weight falls on the second home, but most rich northerners nominate their holiday home in the south as a first house for one of the family, hence no tax.  They dont live and work here, but get all the benefits when they come in the summer.   3 The usual suspects will always have zero tax to pay, while those who dont have the connections/relations/know how will get slapped with a tax bill to bail out those who can play the system. We are in the south after all.  Population density in the south is low - very low in places  - which means the costs of road systems, travel, slipping mountains, overflowing rivers, fall on comunes with small populations and low incomes.   However it will enable central government to throw up its collective hands and declare that its not their fault... 

You assume that the estate agent decides how much the property is on the market for.  We don't.  The seller can stipulate the asking price as well as the selling price - and usually the agent knows nothing of what is going on in their heads.... 

As you say Pianpiano, no-one is saying they are - but .. you would be amazed at how many people arrive in my office waving spurious figures and telling me the market is in crisis, and therefore owners should sell at half price.   Now, I accept that the market in Detroit 'ain't happenin' and but what has that got to do with me and Sicilian vendors?  THere is, unfortunately, an arrogance that the buyer (and wherever he/she comes from)  is the greatest economic expert known to man,  even though the experience is based on what they have seen on the news, and that the nephew of their next door neighbour only sold his house when he reduced the price and put in a whirlpool bathtub.    Armed with these facts, therefore, they know everything about the Italian property market, backed up by bits of paper from ISTAT.  It grates, believe me. .... 

If you dont get notice of your offence within (I think) 120 days, it is null and void.      I got a fine 3 years after the offence, because the police had sent it to the wrong address, so when it arrived it was adorned with much interest further fines.  I went to court and had it annulled, though it took 3 hearings because the carabinieri didnt bother to show up for the first 2.   

To quote national figures for a country with such huge differences between north and south, urban and rural is absurd.  Micro markets have existed in Italy since the dawn of the expat trail - the centre of Siena was always completely out of kilter with the rest of Tuscany,  Taormina is not representative of Sicily, which in turn is hardly the centre of Milan, or a mountain in the Alps.   The data is collected in square metre prices on recorded sales - which is totally useless.  If you sell three houses in Liverpool and one in Surrey, you would get a square metre price that is skewed for both locations.   A square metre price for an apartment in a 1960s condo is not comparable to a stone cottage next door.  Like most Italian statistics they are designed (like the laws) to be interpreted, not to be accepted at face value. Italians use the square meter argument because their taxes, rates, and rubbish are all calculated on the overall sq metrage of a property, but as a realistic guide it is ineffectual unless you are looking at office or warehouse space.   And then of course you have to take into account that for some misguided people underdeclaration is still the norm which further skews the figures and makes a nonsense of it all.   Having said all of that, the market has dipped, though I would argue that while the number of sales have fallen , prices haven't - but they have levelled, and the negotiations are harder - more people want the kitchen leaving in situ and so on.   

she should sign a contract - it is rare though as most italians want to put the rent in their pockets.  By declaring it they will pay tax.  it is undoubtedly better for your sister to sign a contract as she has more security and can claim (perhaps) the rent off her tax.